The Kentroversy Tapes

This is the cover to Michael Tsarion's first book, on Atlantis, and how evil came to exist in our world. This book is the subject of the following interview.

KENTROVERSY INTERVIEW WITH MICHAEL TSARION
by Kentroversy

Editor's Note: Michael Tsarion is the author of several books, including Atlantis: Alien Visitation & Genetic Manipulation. Michael is a divination scholar and sidereal mythologist, which means that he has studied the comparative mythologies of the world, as they relate to the concepts of Astrotheology and Astrology. Michael is also the head of what he calls the Taroscopic Mystery School, which implements Tarot and Astrology as tools of divination.

The reader can learn more about Michael Tsarion by visiting Taroscopes.com, and Atlantisbook.com. The Atlantis tale of suppressed history tells of gender-based inequality and suppressed history, which have been hidden behind the secrecy oaths of the various Mystery Schools, where this information remains available to all high-level initiates of such groups.

For a complete biography of Michael Tsarion, please visit the following link:

Who Is Michael Tsarion?

To listen to this interview, please click on the following link:

Kentroversy Interviews Michael Tsarion (March 15, 2005) FORTHCOMING

It is my hope that the reader will find the information provided by Michael Tsarion to be worthwhile and fascinating, as it was an extremely interesting conversation that we had, as indicated by the transcript below. I would also ask that the reader keep an open mind about these matters as discussed in the interview transcript below, as it will challenge most previously held beliefs. However, sticking with the material evidence, Michael Tsarion shines a light on the real and true history of both the pre and post diluvian historical epochs, about which mainstream science and religion has so little to say.

From the preface of Atlantis: Alien Visitation & Genetic Manipulation, pg. v:

"During the next ten years, the human race is destined to finally discover the facts about its' true origins and destiny. As part of this discovery, we have to address the overwhelmingly important question of how the phenomena of evil came into the world, and into the consciousness of Earth's human inhabitants. We have left the question of evil in the hands of theologians and scientists for too long. This was surely a mistake, as the causality statistics clearly testify, the institutions of religion and science have been the worst purveyors of evil that this planet has ever had to endure. After centuries of prevarication and criminality, we can no longer afford to look to these edifices to answer the all-important conundrum of evil."

KDB - I have been paying very close attention to you through radio interviews, and that's how I came across your information. I have read your book [Atlantis: Alien Visitation & Genetic Manipulation], and I have to say that it contains some very fascinating information.

Basically, what I wanted to do tonight is give our readers the chance to have an introduction to you and what you do, so that they can get an overview of what you are about.

Could we start with you telling our readers who you are and what you do, along with your background?

MT - My name is Michael Tsarion, and I am from Belfast, Northern Ireland, and that is where I got started into this field. When I was thirteen years of age, I took an interest in the Celtic history of my country, which is often not of great interest to a lot of Irish people. Obviously you have people who are interested in this, but, for the most part, because of the religious mind-control that goes on there, especially in the north where I'm from, there really isn't that much active interest in the Celtic and Gaelic tradition.

KDB - Yes.

MT - So, kids of my age, teenagers, your only choice really is to become involved in the terrorism, or some sort of paramilitary type action over there or, just to avoid that and go about your merry way, trying to secure your own material success. So, it becomes very hard, especially if you live in Belfast city, because the scenario is that it is very difficult to avoid any kind of paramilitary activity. Everyone you know, all of your friends are in some way, very much absorbed and involved in all of that.

KDB - Yes, I understand.

MT - Because of this violence that takes place, this is really hard to avoid. Because I had come from a mystical background, we did know in our family that a lot of this was contrived, and I had to find something else to do, and my inclination was to get involved in the other Ireland, which is the Celtic Ireland. In doing that, I didn't realize that that was going to start something very fascinating in my life. I actually come from a long line of mystical people, and I was the first Anglo child born [into my family]. My mother is from India, from the Himalaya's, so by being born in Ireland, it was a strange kind of mix.

KDB - Oh, absolutely! What are you trying to accomplish in terms of goals with your Mystery School?

MT - The Mystery School is different than my work on Atlantis. The work on Atlantis is based on this ancient civilization, and exposing the conspiracies. This is of course, every man's true duty in life, and any sane, rational human being wants to remove the impediments that are conditioning human behavior and keeping us all in servitude, basically. But, the Mystery School is that, and a little bit more.

My main work in life is with the Hermetic arts of divination --- Tarot, Qabala, Astrology, Numerology. These are basically great Gnostic traditions, that constitute the true authentic religion of the West. We know that there is an Eastern tradition of mysticism and Yoga, and self-realization. But, a lot of people don't realize that the Western world has its' own system of magical tradition, and that magical tradition originated in Egypt. And, it's still alive and well today. My particular goal is to try and use the Internet as a new Mystery School scenario, because I do not believe that the way that Mystery School's were handled in the last thirty years, although they were created by many well-meaning people, was the right way to go with these kinds of Uranian and Aquarian Mystery School subjects.

By their very definition; universities, colleges, and bricks and mortar type edifices, are Saturnian in nature. So how can a Saturnian edifice really convey and teach Uranian and Aquarian Mystery School subjects? It's a contradiction in terms, and it is why none of them have really succeeded.

KDB - Yes, I agree.

MT - The coming of the Internet changes that, because the Internet is a very different type of scenario. I find that because of the global reach, because it is very egalitarian, and because you can present, if you know how, these very spiritualistic Mystery School traditions in a way in which is available to all people all over the world at low cost. People today do not want to be stuck in traffic, they don't want to be taking any more classes, which are going to be wasteful of time and energy. Also, we have to be very cautious about the kind of community that we belong to, so the Mystery School tradition by way of the Internet can now be brought into people's homes, where they can in the safety and security of their own home, do what people have not been able to do for hundreds and hundreds of years.

In the Shamanic time, not everyone was accepted into the Mystery Schools. You really had to show that you were pure, before you were accepted into even the lowest degrees of any of these subjects.

KDB - Yes, I see.

MT - Then in more recent times since the 1960's, you really had to go at high-expense maybe across the world, to go and try to get involved in Ashrams, you had to enroll in Mystery Schools, physical bricks and mortar type Mystery Schools. So, I have made a lot of changes in the Mystery School traditions itself as a subject. I have revised a lot of the disinformation that is there. But even more than that, what I am trying to do is make it available by way of modern technology, so it is available to a lot of the people in the world. So, those two things are very key.

KDB - What do you mean by the term living zodiac?

MT - "Living Zodiac" is just my term for the inner intelligence. I use a couple of terms to describe this. I just like to call it the intuition, your higher-intuition, your higher-self. The magicians of the world, the magical fraternities, call it the higher-guardian angel. Scientists are now calling it the Ancestral Mind. But, it was long known as the Inner Oracle. I refer to it as the Living Zodiac, because in fact the word zodiac comes from the Latin word zoidion, which means living creatures or living beings. The idea being that the zodiac is not an external phenomena at all, and if it gets up into the sky, which of course, we know it does exist up there. This zodiac is a projection of human consciousness, this was what was taught in the Mystery Schools of Egypt, as well as being echoed by all the fraternities, which are the keepers of the true tradition of astrology. And. this makes perfect sense, even if you look back at the old diagrams of astrology.

The astrology we practice today is a very, very corrupted form of astrology, that has come to us after being processed and homogenized by Christian thinkers and by people who work for the secret societies of the world. Ultimately, these secret societies preferred to completely banish astrology and all kinds of divination from the face of the earth. They did try that, but it wasn't successful because of course, if you suppress something, it just goes underground. So, they tried another strategy, which was to keep the semblance of astrology alive, but to change it significantly to affect the calendar for instance. To change it into the Gregorian system, so they tampered with the agricultural zodiacal calendar, which we all know they did.

KDB - Sure, sure.

MT - They also just masculinized a lot of different signs of the zodiac, there is a whole story to how this corruption took place. Now, my work as a purist is to go back to the purist, most original form of astrology, so that we can in the twenty-first century, visit this powerful archive as it really was meant to be. And, that entailed some major revisions of Western astrology, although we keep a great deal of what we know is in astrology.

The second most important thing is to convey the fact the zodiac is an internal thing. It is an apparatus of consciousness. This is what we know now after Freud and Jung, the psychoanalysts, and we realize that the human mind can project onto the external world of matter, its' own psychic contents. So, the twelve signs of the zodiac, the twelve divisions of the zodiac, are basically twelve divisions of consciousness. Therefore, it is a major revision of what astrology means, which is that rocks floating in space, with some sort of magic rays or whatever, which have never been discovered and never will be discovered, are affecting human consciousness.

This is nonsense.

And even though you might meet individual astrologers who go "Oh yes, we understand that it's archetypal," they may say this, but then their books go write about it in the old way of ephemeras, compasses, and protractors and all of this mathematical paraphernalia, and this left-brain approach, which is utterly preposterous. Totally nonsensical, and it has nothing to do with the astromancy of ancient times. And this can be proven, and that is what I intend to prove.

KDB - Well, that sounds very, very excellent. Could you explain why the Illuminati are obsessed with certain numbers, such as the number 33, and its' astrological significance?

MT - Sure, these numbers like 666 and 13 and 777 and 21 that they use a lot, and the number which you have just mentioned, which is 33 --- are not negative. No symbol in itself, no number by itself is negative. But, very negative anti-human societies do use them, and there are many reasons why they do this. A few of the basic reasons are because they know that these things are sacred, and so if they use them they get their power. Because these anti-human agencies have no inherent power of their own. They have control, but they don't have any power. They have control, because we the human race have given up our power. Now, they also get a certain kind of empowerment from using sacred symbols and sacred numbers, and sacred ideas. They empower themselves in the same way a thief can come in and steal something beautiful and then say it's his. So, they have murdered all the shamans, they've murdered the oracles, they've murdered the great astrologers of old, and that is under pain of genocide. But, they are after that treasure. They want to appropriate it, because these are magpies who steal the sacred knowledge so that they can use it for themselves.

33 comes specifically from the movement of the sun in the zodiac. It takes the sun thirty degrees to pass through one [zodiac] sign. But, before its' really left that sign, you can add another three degrees on because that is the width of the sun itself. So, in all, its' like thirty-three degrees to pass through one sign of the zodiac, and therefore this number [33] is very important to those that worship the sun. That's why the Illuminati call themselves that name --- the ones of the light.

KDB - Sure.

MT - Luciferians worship a god called Lucifer, the sun of the morning. Well, the sun of the morning is the sun. That's why we have elites. We even call children in school, the pupils; because it comes from the pupil of the eye of the god of Ra, the god of the sun. We get Gold stars for matriculation, when we do good in school. When you graduate, you get a degree, a Masonic degree. All of this stuff comes from astrology --- the degrees of the zodiac. So, these people have appropriated ancient stellar symbolism, in order to empower themselves, and because they erroneously think in their minds that they are the descendants of the original magi who built the pyramids, created culture, and they literally think of themselves as the descendants of these ancients.

And, of course in may ways they are the descendants of the freemasons and the guilds, and they think they have the right to use these symbols. Now, I would say "Yeah, they do have the right." But, they don't have the right to use those symbols to suppress other human beings. That's my problem [with them]. I don't care how many Masonic orders or how many secret societies exist in the world. They perfectly have the right to exist. It's just that these secret societies are now very much being used, because they have been infiltrated by Satanic forces. These fraternities and secret societies and subversive movements are now manipulating human beings to degrade and enslave. This is not what they were originally meant to do, and which their own grandmasters often lament. You only have to go to their own works and find this whole infiltration being lamented by the original masters of freemasonry and by some of these other secret societies. They knew they were being taken over, but they could not do much about it.

KDB - How and when did you discover the truth about Atlantis, and the entire pre-diluvian history?

MT - Well, obviously that is an ongoing issue. I've had great help in that process because of the enormously brilliant erudite scholarship that has been done before. I have my own ideas, obviously. But, a great deal of my work merely rests on the work of some very, very great scholars. I originally started to get the very first glimmers back in 1979, when I read the work of a very, very famous Celtic artist, whose artwork is on the front cover of my book on Atlantis. His name is Jim Fitzpatrick, and he retold the Irish myths in a much more coherent way than had ever been done before. And then, there were people like him, and then there was Mary Cain, and Lady Katherine Maltwood, who had studied the great zodiacs in England.

And, as I said, I come from a mystical tradition. I do not come from any outside field like science, art, business, computers, or technology. I am from the metaphysical tradition, I don't come from outside of it. So, I already had people in my own family and my closest circle I grew up amongst free-thinkers, like Sir George Trevelyan, and Paul Solomon. My grandfather is Tara Singh, who is a world teacher. I grew up in the Krishnamurdi Society, and we always had great pressure put on us to think outside of the box.

KDB - Sure.

MT - As far as the Celtic tradition, it's not really amazing to come to these conclusions because its' all hidden in plain sight. Anyone who uses their eyes and their logic who goes to these Celtic countries, I mean, you can go to South America and look at the Nazca lines in Peru. Obviously, it dawns on us who are rational, that we are not being told the truth about the builders of these megalithic sites. Erich Von Daniken has been a big help in opening the eyes of the world to these anomalies. So, again, it's a series of reading and studying the work of other people, and then keeping a very open mind and believing what your intuition is telling you.

KDB - I'm operating on, as I said before, on the principle that this is an introduction to you and your work. I wondered if you could just explain to our readers exactly how humankind became genetically manipulated. When and how did this take place?

MT - That's the story of the genetic alteration, or shall we say the altering of our DNA, or what I call the violation of our most basic sovereignty, our genetic sovereignty. One of the most interesting stories, and the time has come in this world to let this story now be known. My work hinges on the philosophical question of how the concept of evil came into the world, and into the consciousness of human beings. When we have looked to why evil has come into the world, why we are beset with this problem in the world, we generally have turned to science and religion for the answers. And, of course, neither science nor religion has really given us the answers. In fact, some people could argue that the institutions of science and religion are the biggest purveyors of evil that we have ever had to endure.

So, I have learned from studying the ancient mythologies of the world that these ancient folktales and legends and mythologies have a lot to tell us about the coming of evil. And, if you read very closely into these ancient mythologies; like the Book of Enoch, and the Popul Vuh from Mexico, and some of the other ancient chronicles and legends, you'll find that they definitely mention that our planet was visited by alien beings, possibly from the star system Alpha Draconis about fifty-thousand years ago. These individuals came to our planet, founded Atlantis, and on Atlantis began to first try to mate with the earth women, and then when that proved unsuccessful, they did something very taboo, which was they involved themselves in trans-genetic experimentation, in which they crossed their own alien DNA with the DNA of our forefathers here [on earth].

And, one of the consequences of this was that the human being then became a schizoid creature. He had incredible advancement intellectually, because these alien beings in order to fly across space, were very technologically advanced. So, the being they created had a lot of technological advancement, but that being also had a lot of spiritual qualities.

KDB - Sure.

MT - But also, what happened was there was great conflict. These two types of DNA were never meant to be crossed. It was an absolute violation of earth sovereignty, and it was a violation of genetic sovereignty. It was the worst violation of sovereignty that you could ever imagine! And the consequences of this hybridization program, I believe, caused what we know to be the injustices, their cruelty, and their penchant for sadism and violence. Because the only thing that distinguishes a man from the primates and the other creatures is his sadism, his cruelty, his violence, and the fact that he even gets pleasure from doing those things.

KDB - In your Atlantis book, you list a very extensive timeline at the back of the book. I wonder, in your opinion, what has been the single-most evil act of all-time?

MT - I would say that it was, without doubt, it is the effect of crossing our DNA like this. That is the thing that precipitated not only our psychological schism, but it caused untold problems for us historically, socially, you name it. That is the onset of the problem. Everything else stems from that. That these individuals, just like in John Milton's Paradise Lost, their idea was better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. So, when they came to this planet, they wanted servants, they wanted slaves. And, they did it just like the Book of Enoch talks about, and the apocryphal books of the bible and so on.

These characters, who are humanoid, you could walk past these people on the street and probably not notice them. They were very advanced, and they decided to do this reprehensible act. In fact, in the Book of Enoch, there is even a quote from the leader of these alien beings, and he says "I know you probably will not join with me" in doing what we know to be a sin. So, they even knew that it was a sin, but they went along with it anyway. And, this effect broke cardinal law. This was basically a violation of nature's law. So, any of these Christian philosophers and the scientists who are telling us that the coming of evil into the world is just purely a natural mistake, a flaw in the mechanics in nature, it will all be resolved as we evolve through time, is one of the biggest lies that anyone would ever want to embody.

Nature, as we know, is in perfect harmony, in fact, from the largest neutron star down to the smallest quantum particle. So, how on earth could it make a blunder in a higher species, man, a blunder which is so severe that it would undermine her own order? Which is what they are now doing.

KDB - Yes, yes. Very intriguing.

MT - Nature just doesn't make mistakes like that, and anyone who even thinks that it does, or anyone who falls for this kind of mind-control, is actually complicit in the raping of the earth, and in the murder of all the indigenous people who are close to nature. If it is insinuated to us that nature is in fact flawed, it justifies thinking of nature as a lesser. We don't worship nature, or revere it anymore. We think, okay this is just a dumb thing. We have got this schism inside, and nature is responsible, ergo we can do to nature, and to animals, and to indigenous tribes whatever we damn well feel like. And that is exactly what has been going on here, not just since the Industrial Revolution, but all the way back eleven-thousand years from the rise of the great empires, what we call the first historical empires of Asia Minor.

KDB - And, of course, this all ties into the destruction of matriarchal society, correct?

MT - Absolutely!

KDB - Yeah.

MT - The role of women, which I go into a great deal in the book, this again is central to my work, I do in my book resolve a lot of disinformation, and a lot of disconnects that haunt the work of other people in this field. Because one of the things I did do was read pretty much everybody else who writes in this area. And, I have read most of the comparative mythologies of the world. Therefore, I have a full grasp of what makes their work brilliant, and I also have a full-grasp of where their big errors are, or the big x-factors that they don't explain.

And one of the things that has never been wholly truly explained is this whole idea of why it is that women have been marginalized? Why they have been denied office politically, and certainly religiously down through the years? Why the Book of Genesis starts with the blaming or the guilt of Eve, and so on and so forth? This seemed very preposterous to me. But, when you read the ancient records, finally the truth comes out. And it is that the Atlanteans, or their descendants now, their bloodline descendants, have never forgiven women for a certain crime that they committed back about thirteen-thousand years ago. Because when the Atlanteans were being overthrown by these creatures that they had created, it was the women who were very much involved with that rebellion. And, its' never been forgiven that they were involved in this rebellion, and that is why there have been massacres, you see, and all sorts of sequestering and marginalization and punishment that has been meted out to them, especially by the Judaeo-Christian elites.

KDB - So, are you saying that these entities are fully capable of taking over the consciousness of a human being? Is that correct?

MT - Yeah, they've done it by the fact that they have basically created us, their descendants, who are behind the thrones of power in the world, absolutely know how to manipulate us! My goodness, that's very easy for them to do! These things are not at all difficult. They've already had control of our biology. And, they keep us under florescent light in their schools for eighteen years, we are as about as susceptible as you can imagine! We can barely resist this type of group-think and senseless trance that comes out over the media every day. Oh, nothing could be simpler. Oh, in fact, they are pretty much in shock at how easy it has been to control the so-called intelligent people of the world!

As you know, in the last chapter of my book, I go into a bit of that, about how our own pride, from when we go school and college, we're just dying to be a slave. Whose are these trophies and awards that we are coveting? The slave is happy to serve his master, to be involved in this consensus trap. And, the elites of the world know that!

KDB - In this type of a situation, how were you able to research this? Were you given access to any interesting archives anywhere, or did you just go on publicly available information?

MT - Oh no, if you went just by what was available to you publicly, you'd never find the answer to this.

KDB - Yeah, sure!

MT - I have a huge collection of out-of-print books, that I've spent a lot of money trying to resource [obtain]. I am practically an authority on out-of-print books, especially dealing in these subjects. Also, from my Eastern side, we were told by our grandmothers, and from the Indian side, a whole other story of the rise of civilization than what we are told in the West. So, by way of being part of a clairvoyant background by having an Eastern side to my family, with very wise people there, we were already growing up hearing a very different story about the coming of the races, and the takeover of the world, and the history of the first and second world war, and what have you.

We already heard that this was the occult, that this was based on occultism. This is information that has been kept from most of the world, even though I say it is mostly hidden in plain view, but of course, the Western person just doesn't see it. But, in Eastern lands, we are much, much more educated in these matters by our forefathers who are very, very aware just as the Third World people are now very aware, that there is in fact a Big Brother that is operating in the world. You still have to beat that into the heads of most middle-American Western individuals.

KDB - Oh, yeah! [laughs] Oh, yeah!

MT - But, you go to the Amazon, you go to South America, you go to India. Everybody there has known this for hundreds of years. You just need to pull aside your curtains down there, and you can see Big Brother happily at work, destroying your forests, polluting your oceans, spreading its' designer diseases, and basically annihilating your people. So, there's never really been any doubt in the Third World that there is a thing called a Big Brother operating in the world. It's only here because of the apathetic and what Gore Vidal calls this Culture of Amnesia, that we can afford that luxury. But, even that luxury is soon passing away.

By 1997, I had already predicted, and I really don't have to be an astrologer to do that, that by 1997, even the middle-American person is going to know that there is a conspiracy, all right! And, that there are secret societies operating in the world. And, these people's exposure is coming.

KDB - Have you ever thought about how the awake among us might implement a spiritual plan of action to take back our planet?

MT - Yes, that is the theme of the last chapter of the Atlantis book, which are solutions. I am very solution oriented, and it was never my intention to ever get into writing anything about this subject without affording solutions, so on all my DVD's, and the book I'm making, and all the DVD's I produce, and even all the talks I give publicly, is very solution oriented. And, the solutions are very simple.

First of all, we are being facilitated by being in the twenty-first century. Certain solutions could not be applied because the time was not right. So, of course that has gained a lot of frustration, I understand that. People have become jaded, frustrated, they've given up hope. But, what they have not maybe understood, which is known to good astrologers, that the Sidereal time must be right. That literally means just as we say in daily life, the time must be right for something. And, so it is on the celestial level. The celestial timing has to be right. And, the celestial clock has now moved into the right time.

Just like the Mayan calendar predicted, the last countdown of thirteen years, from 1999 to 2012, is a time of awakening! The called it the Age of Revealing, it is very similar to the coming Age of Aquarius. The planet Uranus, which represents the spirit of rebellion, is very prominent right now. So, there are many ingredients that make it much easier for the truth to get out.

Now, what truth? What solutions?

Well, first of all, know thine enemy is the most important beginning. And, so my work is very much dedicated, as yours is, to just assisting people to know that there is an enemy, and how to identify it. Because before you can do anything about it, you have to know somebody's shooting at you.

KDB - [Laughs in agreement] Oh yeah . . .

MT - It's just like the bible said, know thine enemy. That is the first cardinal law. And, study this enemy. Don't act yet, until you have full understanding. Then, you have to have the patience to wait to find out what kind of weaponry that you must use. Because ultimately, this is not a fight of physical weaponry, it is an intellectual and spiritual fight, just like you said at the beginning of this interview. This is a fight that involves consciousness and transcendence of consciousness, and a shifting to a higher level of insight. I am one-hundred percent in agreement with you on that.

Therefore in the last pages of the Atlantis book, I kind of put it like this:

I liken the coming of these secret societies, and I liken the intervention of these alien forces in ancient times to the coming of a virus into a healthy cell. We can imagine the earth to be a healthy cell, which is then infected by a pathogenic force. Well, as we know, if we're having that problem physically, there are two approaches. There's the allopathic and the homeopathic system. The allopathic system is just slash and burn methodology. But, the homeopathic system says strengthen your own immune system.

KDB - Yes, exactly.

MT - And I believe that this is the same advice we need to apply the planet. We do not implement the solution, per se. And, that's why it has never worked. The human being, you see, is far too impotent, far too weak, far too backward, to ever enough waving of placards, and if he is trying to do this in the political arena, he is just wasting his time.

The earth itself is a living organism. The earth has a spiritual and a living power that knows exactly how to rid itself of any virus or disease that has infected it. But, the human beings of the earth are like the lymphocytes of the earth. The only trouble is, we have forgotten how to clean the earth. In the shamanic times, we knew how to bring healing to the earth. Because of all the massacres of all the shamanic peoples and the Gnostics, and of the Wicca, and the different oracles throughout time, these secrets have largely been lost. The homeopathic tradition has been lost, when we come to physical diagnostics and healing. So have these greater issues been lost, and they have been preserved by the dark side, so they're using it all the time.

KDB - As a matter of fact, what you were saying a moment ago about the strengthening of the immune system, I was supposed to be dead [of AIDS-related complications] fifteen years ago, and I did know personally thirty-five people who did die of AIDS. These were associates of mine, people who were [Hemophilia] patients from all across the United States. And the ones that believed in their souls that they were not long for this world, they died the absolute fastest.

MT - Sure they did.

KDB - And as far as I was personally concerned, I put myself into a program that involved many disciplines. I am here today healthy, and I have been in complete full remission for nine years.

MT - That's right. And that is because you applied the basic homeopathic truths, and these have worked for thousands of years, and they will continue to work. The earth is self-regenerating, ever-lasting, and eternal. One order of the world might pass away, and so yes by 2012, the Mayans may be right. The world as we now know it may pass away, but the earth itself will always be here. And those who are in alignment with its' laws will all survive.

So, we are coming to a point where there is a countdown, not to extinction like a lot of people think, but actually a countdown to enlightenment and to freedom. A lot of individuals are projecting their own fear externally, because they are riddled in fear, that's the whole plan. So, of course now we have the rise of the paranoid society. On television, everything is wrong with you, and everything is bad for you.

KDB - Yes, exactly.

MT - This is what we have, this paranoid culture where people are going to be afraid to go out soon. So, there is darkness before the dawn, but the storms that are coming are healthy storms. And, the solution is for individuals to discover again their shamanic tradition that knows how to empower the earth itself. The earth is the mainframe. The earth is the central computer bank that knows how to get rid of the problem. We are only part of that solution. But, the earth itself knows how to rid itself of the pathogenic forces. The dark side knew this, which was always why they have a campaign of genocide when they expanded their empires. Genocide always attends the expansion of empire, because of course, when they went to these foreign continents; Africa, India and America, they knew that the shamanic people there were doing their dances, doing their rituals habitually, at the right places of the earth grid, at the right sidereal times, to affect healing in the world.

KDB - Sure.

MT - And this is just one of the important components of the healing. But, on a lesser level, but still very important, is of course, just simple education. People need to study the enemy, find out what's going on, collaborate as much as they possibly can. And one of the most important things that I think you were hinting to earlier on, and this is on my DVD on this subject, it's the number one thing, and that is to make sure that a person's own emotional body, that's their own emotional and psychic body, is already exercised and clean and hygienic. Because the person who is not emotionally, psychically, and morally hygienic has no chance whatsoever, capital W, in affecting positive change outside. The politician doesn't understand that, and the well-meaning activist doesn't understand that, because they're not coming from the metaphysical tradition. They're just well-meaning good people who want to change the world, but unfortunately, they end up in the political pig sty to try to do that [affect positive change], which has already been created by the Illuminati by these dialectic master plans, and so nothing ever gets done.

If you however, like myself, come from the occult magical tradition, the mystical tradition, you do not even think to create change outside of yourself unless you have already initiated it within. This is the main issue why a lot of effort is being done by the Amy Goodman's of the world, and God love them, it is great to see that. But, the point is that the weapons being used against us are occult in nature. Therefore, we have to respond in kind, with occult weapons back. And, in occultism, in the mystical tradition, you cannot do that unless you have first been purified by fire and water. That means trial and tribulation, so you can withstand the kind of challenges that are going to come to you when you take on these forces.

KDB - Sure, absolutely. That's been my experience personally. I have been studying various kinds of magic for twenty-five years now, along with my other areas of research, and these trials can be very intense. I can relate to that.

MT - Absolutely, and that's why I believe we are talking, because to even be in the last thirteen years, to still give this information out to people it's absolutely vital, because if they arm up and head out against these kinds of forces, who are extremely matriculated on the spiritual path, they don't realize that the dark side is very powerful, because it has done its' homework. It knows every aspect of our nature, every aspect of our libido, every aspect of our drives, every aspect of our desires, our sexual nature, you name it.

They have a thorough knowledge of the species that they have actually once created. We have next to no knowledge of them. So, we're working at a massive deficiency here, we're working in the dark. But, that darkness can be lightened up, if we start to do our own spiritual homework. You become invulnerable! You have the best weaponry of all. Do not try to fight these individuals in the arena that they themselves have created!

KDB - Oh yeah!

MT - Unfortunately, the Western World has not understood this. Even though some fantastic activists are out there, I won't name any names because a lot of them are my mentors, but the problem with these individuals who work strictly in the political arena, is they are not going to see a modicum of real change because they are fighting with weapons that have been handed to them by their own enemies! It becomes a tug of war that has gone nowhere. In fact, the rope that you are pulling actually ends up strangling yourself!

The answer is the old Bruce Lee Zen Taoist way, and that is when you are so inherently strong that your enemy cannot destroy you, then, you have won.

KDB - Have you ever come across hostility to these ideas? And, how would I present this material to somebody who is stuck inside an organized religion structure?

MT - That is a question that is always on my mind, and of course, I have lived with nothing but hostility. It's not a question if I have received or met with hostility, because I've met with nothing but hostility since I was born. It is an extremely pleasant experience when I go on a show or speak with a group of people, which I must say does happen. Obviously, in America, I must say that I am surprised by the overwhelming interest in these subjects. But on the whole in ones' daily life, in ones' intimate circle, oh my God, there is nothing but all kinds of egoistic knee-jerk defensive reaction against any kind of light, any kind of truth.

So my answer to you, is exactly the same answer I've employed in my own life, and that is that I do not bother trying to ever engage anyone that I can see is lost in their own miasma, because it just wastes my energy. I have learned very clearly how to economize this energy. These individuals need to be where they are. When you see somebody in darkness, don't automatically rush out and try to save them. This is the old Good Samaritan lie, it's not needed. Individuals in this kind of mind-think, they need to be in that mind-think. That is where they are at this stage of their destiny.

I do not believe, you see, that we need to awaken all of the people all of the time in order to affect great changes in the world. This has no mystical precedence whatsoever, and I do not know where it ever came from. I know it's born of a virtue, I know that everyone wants to help everyone else. But, the only one you can help is yourself. When you then offer forth knowledge, you do so as a gift to humanity, not to human beings. There's a difference. Humanity is a concept, humanity is a thing that has not yet been born in the world. But, if you try to go out altruistically serving human beings, your life will be a perpetual tragedy.

So again, this needs to be understood. I am not a martyr, I do not believe in selling this information to the swine in the world, or try to enlighten fools. And, the reason is there have been many great souls that have already gone to their grave that way. Why should you try to save the people that will drag you down into their mess, and who will try to darken you with their confusion? Those people who are out there who need to learn, will learn that truth whether it's from you, from me, or some other source that we could never fathom. It's pure egoism to think that we have to be there with our knowledge to give it to somebody.

When that time comes for that person to be awakened, they will be awakened, and their own higher-source will lead them wherever they need to go. So, it takes the onus off of us. A lot of people who charge around trying to wake up the world are actually some of the most vain people you'll ever come across. Yet, they disguise that vanity under what appears to be a necessary positive thing. But, underneath is actually a great deal of vanity.

KDB - Through my own research, I have been very aware of the use of magical words as product names, and sigils as corporate logos. I wonder if you could comment on the role symbolism plays in the Illuminati agenda?

MT - Actually, it plays a central role. One of the things that got me into this subject is what you have just spoken about. From thirteen years of age, I was studying corporate symbolism, and subliminal imagery. I didn't know at that time that there it was occult in nature, I was just wondering what in the hell is this stuff doing here? I didn't know that there would come a day when I would realize the reason why these symbols, colors, rhythms, tones, and sigils were being used. And now, I have talked around the entire world on this subject, and have a DVD coming out that goes very deeply into all of that.

Again, it's to empower themselves and to dumb us down. These ancient symbols that are very powerful are very attractive to our ancestral mind, because our soul recognizes them. But, if they take the symbols of Mars, which has some positive spiritual meaning, if they take the circle or the pentagram, or the sun, all of which are connected to spiritual states of consciousness, and they stick it on a bar of soap, or on a stupid car, or on some toothpaste, what is happening is that something incredibly Satanic is taking place. What is happening is that we are being attracted by the symbol, because that symbol once had something to do with our spiritual uplift. But, now that symbol is on something that is going to pull us down into our lower chakras and into our lower drives and into our appetite-body. So, on one had we are reaching out for it, but on the other hand, we are resisting it. So, what then happens is an inner-conflict. We want what that symbol represents, but, we realize that it is on some stupid material thing that is actually helping to impoverish us.

So, the people who use this symbolism, keep us in a perpetual state of conflict. And, this causes a laundry list of psychic and sexual maladies. These symbols cause this. Subliminally, the children are watching TV, all of their young children's shows that they watch in the morning are filled with the most evil, Satanic, sexualistic symbolism. The parents are not even aware of it. And then, there is the disaffecting of the constitution of the young, which is something that very much concerns me. And, this is always infecting our mental state, as we drive down the boulevard, you are seeing all of this symbolism.

We need to understand what these elites understand, and that is words are a very recent form of communication, in the history of the mind, and in the history of human beings. Language and communicating through words and language is a very recent historical phenomenon. Before we had the gift of language, men and women used to communicate by symbolism, by colors, by rhythms, by numbers, by sound, by the mudra's, and all sorts of stuff like that. We communicated by amulet's, by talisman's, they would communicate deep things that words still cannot communicate. So, these individuals are working on the deeper levels of our mind, so they can control those deeper aspects of our mind, and also to control our conscious mind.

KDB - Studies have shown that children as young as three or four years of age are able to demand specific products by their names. And, they even know the packaging by sight. You see this in the supermarkets, and it's all over children's television, with the mandatory so many commercials per hour. Now, is this negative attachment the result of the children being so subjected to a lot of hours of television, the agenda behind the products themselves, or a combination of these things?

MT - Well, its' definitely a combination, because none of these things alone will ever work to create these effects. It's a hundred different things moving at the same time. But, again, yes we do have a barrage of this psychic weaponry coming at us. But, the real key is that even thought that is coming at us, if the parents were able to instill a center in these children, it would matter what was coming at them! They'd be armored to the teeth with a spiritual center, and with a strong sense of selfhood. Therefore, they would be pretty much impervious to these things. So, it's not just the fact that, yes, okay it's Big Brother, the psychic dictatorship that is sending this stuff towards us. But you'll also have the choice to be able to defend yourself. Now, we are living in a society where the parents are literally so ga-ga about this, so undereducated about this, so toxic with it themselves, that they bring children into the world, and they basically put their children in front of this mess, without censoring it for them [the children]. The child is not responsible, so therefore, yes it's the combination. There's no center in the child, and the real problem is that there is nothing inside the child. So, naturally, it is going to turn to what appears to fulfill its' fantasy, it's spiritual component.

The parents of the world are not spiritually empowering or enriching their children, so the children have no alternative, but to turn to what appears to be the spiritual oracle, the spiritual feeder. That's how the devil works, that's how the Satanic force works. It puts on the mask of the Friendly One. Just like Spielberg showed in his [film] Poltergeist, it has a way of luring you in with these sacred symbols and sacred meanings. For instance, television, even why adults are attracted to it, is because it's the one thing that you don't have to give anything to, to get something back. In all other human relationships, you see, there is a give and a take.

KDB - Yeah, sure. That's true!

MT - Television, it does everything for you. All you have to do is sit back passively, and it does everything for you! And this of course becomes very necessary in human life, because we are giving every ounce of our energy twenty-four hours a day for nothing back. So, you see, we have to look outside the medium itself to find out why we would be addicted to this? What is it that we are missing? What is it that we are susceptible to, that we would even move toward this kind of thing? We have to find out the psychology of it, and then when we find out the psychology of it, and people like Gerry Mander, the great writer, has written about this. We have to put out so much psychic and emotional and psychological energy in daily life that part of us is just sick of it, because we are not getting the things that are really sustaining us.

The television, which David Icke calls the psychologist in the corner of the room . . .

[both Kent and Michael laugh]

. . . which is a great term. The television is like our best friend in a way, and for children it is like that because it is not asking anything from you! And its' giving you, relatively speaking, nothing back! So, you see, the parents of the world need to understand this concept, because they can do the balance of realizing that when you ask the human mind to give, give, give, give, give --- but when it doesn't get anything that it inherently needs or wants, it will turn elsewhere. And, these Madison Avenue think-tank individuals are so sophisticated and so psychologically astute, that they know this.

And they understand how to communicate to the child through the television, that this is your spiritual oracle. So, naturally, if you think something is spiritual, you are not going to want to let go of it. It's a conditioning, it's a mixed-message that has been given to us, and the only way to crack it, is not to turn off the TV or beat the children over the head, or blame society, or lament, and throw millions of dollars at the problem, which of course, America will always find a way to do that. The solution is to become psychologically empowered to realize what is this thing offering that we should be offering, but we're not.

KDB - For my final question tonight, I just wondered if you could give our readers a little inside insight into what's going to be happening from this point forward, as we move towards 2012, that you see as a divination expert?

MT - Right, well that's a great question. That's partly why I have involved myself in divination, is because ultimately, as I said, the celestial clock is now with us. So, there are going to be radical changes in the near future, which maybe in hundreds of years, we haven't seen. Some people call this time speeding up, well, that may be. But, it also may be that consciousness is slowing down. What it really means on a practical level, is that there are certain constellational alignments that are going to be taking place that are going to help expose the darkness in people.

Remember this thing about the psychic hygene and cleaning out one's own body?

KDB - Yes, I remember.

MT - Well, that is really what is going to happen. Naturally, as that happens, you will have physical, social, and political ramifications. There's no doubt about that! Now, we are already seeing that. But, this thing with Martha Stewart, Bill O'Reilly, and Michael Jackson, this is just the small-potatoes stuff at the beginning. We are going to see massive uncovering of people's real selves in the media, but also in our own intimate circle --- in the world around us, in our neighbors, and the people that we trusted at work --- there is going to be a lot of masks coming down. And, it's going to shock both the antagonist and the protagonist! So, that's the first thing that is going to happen. The masks are going to slip, and I mean that in the Jungian sense. The masks are coming down, and people are going to get a chance now to see what lies behind the mask. And the reason for seeing that is so we can clean it up. We can deal with it, we can be honest about it.

America is going through an underworld cycle, in which it can do what it has never done before, and that is clean its' own psyche. Because its' the filth and toxicity of its' own psyche that is bringing about the George Bush's of the world, that's allowing it to be controlled by forces unseen, and is allowing it to go down the road to destruction. The root of all of that, is inside the self of each individual. The collective psyche is very, very dark, and toxic in America. It has to be cleaned out, and the process of cleaning it out has already begun. It already has been taking place since 1996, and with every year that passes, more and more of that will happen.

Why the elites of the world are starting to do a lot of saber-rattling, and are starting to move forward with their New World Order Leviathan idea, is because they know that their time is short. Should individuals start to do this psychic homework, they understand what it means for them. So, therefore, they're moving quickly to continue the onslaught of lies and deception and war and chaos, because of course, those who have chaos inside themselves, prefer a climate of chaos, because they don't stand out as much, right?

KDB - Sure, you are absolutely correct.

MT - The consciousness of the Bushes' and the Thatcher's and the Clinton's and the Putin's of the world, all of these so-called leaders, and all of the people behind-the-scenes, the Brzezinski's, and what have you --- these people are so dire filthy and toxic inside their hearts and minds. Like the bible says, the scorpions will come out of their hearts, and they will be left asking where do these scorpions come from? These individuals are so absolutely toxic, that they prefer to create mayhem all over the world, because they feel acclimatized to that. So, there is going to be a counter-move from these forces to create worldwide bacchanalia in order just for them just to feel good.

And then, connecting to my work on Atlantis, there is another component to this. In the ancient books, it is saying that some of the original alien masters --- they have very long lives but they do eventually pass away --- in ancient times, it turns out that some of these beings were actually interred in a sort of what you might want to call a suspended animated state. And, in fact, they can be revived. And so, some of the legends are saying that towards 2012, the dark side might stoop to awakening some of these true Anti-Christ Nephilim fallen-angel beings that are interred in the earth. And, the ancient legends are saying that some of these beings are interred in Iraq. Because, after all, that's where their empire's were first after Atlantis fell, that's where they set up shop later on. And underneath the soil there, hundreds of feet deep in underground caverns that the ordinary Iraqi Muslim people haven't the fainted idea exists.

From satellites, they know where these underground tombs are. So, just like vampires that are in a state of suspended animation, some of these old legends are claiming that these old Nephilim are still alive, and can in fact be revived. It's a very elaborate story on how they do that, that involves genetic hybridization and all sorts of genetic subjects. But, if they were to ever awaken one of these beings, and the bible says they will, we could be in very, very serious trouble. So, literally, there could be another war of Armageddon, in the sense that these beings are loose in the world. And then, we are going to find out something really interesting if that should ever happen.

And, this is one of the reasons why the museums in Iraq were looted during the first moments when the troops went in. We know that these sacred objects, very sacred ritualistic objects, were appropriated and stolen from these museums, that no one has been willing to explain why, not even William Henry and others. And I know why, and you will know why. Because in any kind of magical ritual, it is not only important to have the sidereal time right, but you must be dressed for the part, so to speak. Meaning that you have to have the right ritual objects, which are needed to perform successfully, these rituals. They have many of these, but they didn't have others.

And, they knew these were in the Iraqi museums, and they took them. There are going to be occult rituals of a massive magnitude being done, as they already have been throughout the centuries. And this could mean their arising, just like in Revelation 22 where it said 'those who were, who were not, and who will be again, will arise from the bottomless pit.' There is reason to believe that some of the original fallen angels will be revived to preside over a New World Order of terror and chaos.

KDB [sarcastically] - Oh, wonderful!

MT - The reptilian eye that you see at the top of the dollar bill's pyramid, at the top of this pyramid, you see a two-dimensional eye. And, it has always been put before us that this is the Eye of Ra, or the Eye of the Sun, but it is not. It is Eye of Jehovah. It is the Eye of the Nephilim, the Fallen Ones who rule over all of mankind above the thirteenth level. So, this is another of these strategies that they are ready to employ, and I go a lot into it in a forthcoming book, and in other presentations that I do.

KDB - Your work is very fascinating, and I do thank you again for spending some time with me tonight.

MT - I appreciate it. I am always ready to talk with people who know what's going on, you know?

KDB - Michael, thank you so much, and you have a good night.

To listen to this interview, please click on the following link:

Kentroversy Interviews Michael Tsarion (March 15, 2005) FORTHCOMING

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Sources:

The following sources were used in the creation of this Kentroversy Paper . . .

Michael Tsarion Website Portal

Michael Tsarion - Atlantis: Alien Visitation & Genetic Manipulation

Michael Tsarion - Origins and Oracles DVD Box Set (22 DVD's - 60 hrs.)

Atlantis

The Kentroversy Papers

Oracles and Origins

Taroscopes Mystery School

Michael Tsarion